shift-delete not working the _first_ time

  • Thread starter J. P. Gilliver (John)
  • Start date
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

I usually delete files (folders too) with shift-delete rather than
delete; you know, so it says "are you sure you want to permanently
delete" rather than "are you sure you want to ... recycle bin" (and with
a different icon).

Thing is, nearly always, it doesn't work first time: it usually comes up
with the recycle bin prompt. To which I say no, then shift-delete again,
and it comes up with the right one.

It's only on this one machine, and I'm pretty certain it _isn't_ a dodgy
shift key - my fingers move very little between the first attempt that
fails and the second that succeeds.

Any idea what's causing it?

(I know I could change it - I know there's a setting somewhere, though I
can't remember where - so that plain delete did a permanent delete. It's
just puzzling.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

"Bother," said Pooh, as Windows crashed for the umpteenth time.
 
B

Brian A.

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YuSvZYKpa55IFwDh@soft255.demon.co.uk...
>I usually delete files (folders too) with shift-delete rather than delete; you
>know, so it says "are you sure you want to permanently delete" rather than "are
>you sure you want to ... recycle bin" (and with a different icon).
>
> Thing is, nearly always, it doesn't work first time: it usually comes up with
> the recycle bin prompt. To which I say no, then shift-delete again, and it
> comes up with the right one.
>
> It's only on this one machine, and I'm pretty certain it _isn't_ a dodgy shift
> key - my fingers move very little between the first attempt that fails and the
> second that succeeds.
>
> Any idea what's causing it?
>
> (I know I could change it - I know there's a setting somewhere, though I can't
> remember where - so that plain delete did a permanent delete. It's just
> puzzling.)
> --
> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985
> MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
> ** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs.
> **
>
> "Bother," said Pooh, as Windows crashed for the umpteenth time.


Right click on the recycle bin.
Click Properties in the popup menu.
Select "Do not move files to......".
Your choice to select if you want to be prompted or not.
Click Apply > Ok when done.

--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
 
T

thanatoid

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:YuSvZYKpa55IFwDh@soft255.demon.co.uk:

> I usually delete files (folders too) with shift-delete
> rather than delete; you know, so it says "are you sure you
> want to permanently delete" rather than "are you sure you
> want to ... recycle bin" (and with a different icon).
>
> Thing is, nearly always, it doesn't work first time: it
> usually comes up with the recycle bin prompt. To which I
> say no, then shift-delete again, and it comes up with the
> right one.
>
> It's only on this one machine, and I'm pretty certain it
> _isn't_ a dodgy shift key - my fingers move very little
> between the first attempt that fails and the second that
> succeeds.
>
> Any idea what's causing it?
>
> (I know I could change it - I know there's a setting
> somewhere, though I can't remember where - so that plain
> delete did a permanent delete. It's just puzzling.)


It's about time you visited www.ghisler.com
(The program found there also shows you "individual" /along
with/ "total" file copy/move times.)

There is a free ripoff called FreeCommander. But the Ghisler
original works forever in demo mode if you don't want to spend
the 30 or 40 bucks.

I couldn't live without it.


--
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the
votes decide everything.
- Josef Stalin
 
D

diver

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YuSvZYKpa55IFwDh@soft255.demon.co.uk...
> I usually delete files (folders too) with shift-delete rather than
> delete; you know, so it says "are you sure you want to permanently
> delete" rather than "are you sure you want to ... recycle bin" (and with
> a different icon).


primarily (imho) shift is to allow you to select 2 or more files in given situations,, for
instance, if there are ten files in your recycle bin or sent folder in outlook xpress or in
'some folder' in windows explorer, you can hightlight the first to be deleted then hit shift and
scroll down and capture as many as you want;;; then right click on any hightlighted one and
select 'delete',,, and they will all be deleted.
you can do the same using the 'ctrl' key,, exect you pick each file individually while holder
ctrl key down,,,, so you can randomly pick files within a folder etc.


>
> Thing is, nearly always, it doesn't work first time: it usually comes up
> with the recycle bin prompt. To which I say no, then shift-delete again,
> and it comes up with the right one.
>
> It's only on this one machine, and I'm pretty certain it _isn't_ a dodgy
> shift key - my fingers move very little between the first attempt that
> fails and the second that succeeds.
>
> Any idea what's causing it?
>
> (I know I could change it - I know there's a setting somewhere, though I
> can't remember where - so that plain delete did a permanent delete. It's
> just puzzling.)


not true friend....
deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;; if you want something permanently
'deleted', then you use a 'shredding' utility,, plenty of them out there if you wanna look.
the one i use is even easier than using 'r/bin'. go figure..! (and its always right there on my
context-menu no matter where i am at the time on the computer,, soo simple)

Hth's


> --
> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
> ** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **
>
> "Bother," said Pooh, as Windows crashed for the umpteenth time.
 
T

teebo

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

> deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;; if you want
> something permanently 'deleted', then you use a 'shredding' utility,,


I always turn off the trashcan, perhaps because a bit of
"macintoshofobia" or maybe that I think it is a stupid concept.
The reason I delete files is that I want to free space on the harddisk,
not move the files.
But I think Undo still could be usefull... in that "Oops!" situation....
Just like I can use Edit-Undo to undo a move or rename of files, I would
like
to have that for just deleted files too. without trashcan.

So anyone know of that kind of utility or patch, that can do this?
That when pressing Delete, the files do gets really deleted, but the
first letter in the filename that normally gets wasted is temporary
saved (until I do next undoable thing), so that Undo works automaticly
if needed. If a file is fragmented I guess the fat-chain for that file
have to be remembered too but most files are not.


btw, anyone know how to patch windows filemanager to accept shift-Del
as "cut" like in all other programs?
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

In message <eiN#8CkJJHA.3976@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>, Brian A.
<gonefish'n@afarawaylake.?.invalid> writes
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:YuSvZYKpa55IFwDh@soft255.demon.co.uk...

[]
>> (I know I could change it - I know there's a setting somewhere,
>>though I can't remember where - so that plain delete did a permanent
>>delete. It's just puzzling.)

[]
> Right click on the recycle bin.
>Click Properties in the popup menu.
>Select "Do not move files to......".
>Your choice to select if you want to be prompted or not.
>Click Apply > Ok when done.
>

Thanks, you've reminded me where the setting is if I wanted to make that
always the case. Doesn't explain why I am getting the strange behaviour
(shift being ignored, but only the first time) in the first place
though.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

This area of 'when does a computer know that it doesn't know' is relatively
undeveloped. - Colin Barker (Computing, 1999-2-18 [p. 20])
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

In message <Xns9B2E4613A7Bthanexit@209.197.15.184>, thanatoid
<waiting@the.exit.invalid> writes
[]
>It's about time you visited www.ghisler.com
>(The program found there also shows you "individual" /along
>with/ "total" file copy/move times.)
>
>There is a free ripoff called FreeCommander. But the Ghisler
>original works forever in demo mode if you don't want to spend
>the 30 or 40 bucks.
>
>I couldn't live without it.
>
>

So you keep telling me (-:. But I am just curious to know why the shift
in shift-delete is being ignored the first time only.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

This area of 'when does a computer know that it doesn't know' is relatively
undeveloped. - Colin Barker (Computing, 1999-2-18 [p. 20])
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

In message <umhPG9tJJHA.4940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>, diver
<deep@sea.side> writes
>
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:YuSvZYKpa55IFwDh@soft255.demon.co.uk...
>> I usually delete files (folders too) with shift-delete rather than
>> delete; you know, so it says "are you sure you want to permanently
>> delete" rather than "are you sure you want to ... recycle bin" (and with
>> a different icon).

>
> primarily (imho) shift is to allow you to select 2 or more files in
>given situations,, for

[]
>you can do the same using the 'ctrl' key,, exect you pick each file
>individually while holder
>ctrl key down,,,, so you can randomly pick files within a folder etc.
>

Yes, I know the shift and control with click; that's a different matter,
and is for selecting files. Once you've selected them (one or many, with
or without the shift and/or control keys), if you use shift while
pressing the delete key, they are deleted rather than put into the
recycle bin.
>
>>
>> Thing is, nearly always, it doesn't work first time: it usually comes up
>> with the recycle bin prompt. To which I say no, then shift-delete again,
>> and it comes up with the right one.
>>
>> It's only on this one machine, and I'm pretty certain it _isn't_ a dodgy
>> shift key - my fingers move very little between the first attempt that
>> fails and the second that succeeds.
>>
>> Any idea what's causing it?
>>
>> (I know I could change it - I know there's a setting somewhere, though I
>> can't remember where - so that plain delete did a permanent delete. It's
>> just puzzling.)

>
>not true friend....
>deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;; if you

[]
Yes, I know that too, friend; I have an overwrite utility if I want. I
meant delete as in not just recycle.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

This area of 'when does a computer know that it doesn't know' is relatively
undeveloped. - Colin Barker (Computing, 1999-2-18 [p. 20])
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

In message <op.uikoapr2br8ivg@300pl>, teebo <no@mail.no> writes
>> deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;; if you
>>want something permanently 'deleted', then you use a 'shredding'
>>utility,,

>
>I always turn off the trashcan, perhaps because a bit of
>"macintoshofobia" or maybe that I think it is a stupid concept.
>The reason I delete files is that I want to free space on the harddisk,
>not move the files.


Agreed. I _usually_ use shift-delete for that reason.

>But I think Undo still could be usefull... in that "Oops!" situation....

[]
>So anyone know of that kind of utility or patch, that can do this?


(Sorry, no.)
[]
>btw, anyone know how to patch windows filemanager to accept shift-Del
>as "cut" like in all other programs?


I didn't know it did; I use Ctrl-X, C, V for cut, copy, paste. (Think of
X as looking like a pair of scissors, C for copy, and, well, v is just
the next key along.) [Do you actually mean file manager rather than
Windows Explorer? I have found one other person who still uses file
manager, but it's unusual.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

This area of 'when does a computer know that it doesn't know' is relatively
undeveloped. - Colin Barker (Computing, 1999-2-18 [p. 20])
 
F

FromTheRafters

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

Have you tried a different keyboard to see if the problem
is there too? Such a test might illuminate an investigative
path.
 
T

teebo

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

>> The reason I delete files is that I want to free space on the harddisk,
>> not move the files.

>
> Agreed. I _usually_ use shift-delete for that reason.


>> So anyone know of that kind of utility or patch, that can do this?

>
> (Sorry, no.)


I guess I have to do that myself then hehehe.
There must be someone that have made an opensource windows shell
replacement
that still looks and works in the normal way, that can be modified ...

>> btw, anyone know how to patch windows filemanager to accept shift-Del
>> as "cut" like in all other programs?

>
> I didn't know it did; I use Ctrl-X, C, V for cut, copy, paste.


yeah the right hand keys for cut/paste/copy
shift-Del, shift-Ins, ctrl-Ins is the windows original ones,
and the left handed ones ctrl-X, ctrl-V, ctrl-C, is copied
from mac :) and are better for people that have
their right hand glued to the mouse :-D

> the next key along.) [Do you actually mean file manager rather than
> Windows Explorer? I have found one other person who still uses file
> manager, but it's unusual.]


oh.. no I mean "Windows Explorer" but it isn't called that in this
language version of windows. And the only time it is called anything at all
is when you use the localmenu-command to open a folder in a new window,
and then it is a verb (is it to "explore" and "exploring" in english?).
Btw if you ctrl-doubleclick (or ctrl-Enter) instead, then you don't get
that ugly directory tree panel :)

Bad idea of microsoft to name two things the same anyway. since the file
managing part of windows is called explorer.exe they had to name their
webbrowser iexplore.exe instead.
isn't Explorer some alcohol... could be why internet explorer is so bad ;-)

Is the old win3.x-file manager winfile.exe really still around?
I allways used nortoncommander instead back then....
 
T

thanatoid

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

teebo <no@mail.no> wrote in news:eek:p.uikoapr2br8ivg@300pl:

>> deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;;
>> if you want something permanently 'deleted', then you use
>> a 'shredding' utility,,


<SNIP>

www.ghisler.com

Needs a little tweaking since it has a few idiosyncrasies but
you will NEVER use any Windows "file manager" again. They're
nothing but torture devices.



--
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the
votes decide everything.
- Josef Stalin
 
T

thanatoid

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

teebo <no@mail.no> wrote in news:eek:p.uikoapr2br8ivg@300pl:

>>btw, anyone know how to patch windows filemanager to accept
>>shift-Del as "cut" like in all other programs?


That's a very old shortcut which has been abandoned by most
software writers in favor of Ctl-C,V,X.



--
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the
votes decide everything.
- Josef Stalin
 
T

thanatoid

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

teebo <no@mail.no> wrote in news:eek:p.uik3ckvebr8ivg@300pl:

<SNIP>

> Is the old win3.x-file manager winfile.exe really still
> around? I allways used nortoncommander instead back
> then....


The program from Ghisler is /based/ on Norton and it does
hundreds of other things you will NOT believe. It works forever
in trial mode but it's well worth paying for. You will never use
a Windows torture device again.



--
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the
votes decide everything.
- Josef Stalin
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

In message <Xns9B2F114FBC47Ethanexit@209.197.15.184>, thanatoid
<waiting@the.exit.invalid> writes
[]
>If it has happened 1,000 out of 1,000 times, then you have a
>buggy key(s) which has a strangely consistent behavior. Did you
>try another keyboard?


I can't remember if I have or not, but as it's a laptop, that's not
really a viable solution, unless I could get a replacement for such an
old laptop.
>
>If it ONLY happens in a certain program (perhaps a MS program?
>;-) then it's the program.
>Try the identical action in another program which does basically
>the same thing.


It's only when deleting files/folders in Windows Explorer.
[]
>If none of the above, then it is a mystery which no one will
>probably be able to ever solve. I have run across quite a few in
>my computing life, as has almost everyone.


Me too (-:
[]
>Has it ALWAYS been like this or did it just start? If it just
>started, it may also "just" end. Try changing the date on the
>computer by a few months or a year or whatever and see if it
>disappears.


For some time (some years I think). Not enough of a problem to be really
irritating.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -Voltaire (1694-1778)
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

In message <op.uik3ckvebr8ivg@300pl>, teebo <no@mail.no> writes
[]
>oh.. no I mean "Windows Explorer" but it isn't called that in this
>language version of windows. And the only time it is called anything at all
>is when you use the localmenu-command to open a folder in a new window,
>and then it is a verb (is it to "explore" and "exploring" in english?).
>Btw if you ctrl-doubleclick (or ctrl-Enter) instead, then you don't get
>that ugly directory tree panel :)


I call it up with Windows-E keys. Then it opens at My Computer, i. e.
the top level, not in an obscure Windows directory.
>
>Bad idea of microsoft to name two things the same anyway. since the file


Yes, I've always thought that.

>managing part of windows is called explorer.exe they had to name their
>webbrowser iexplore.exe instead.
>isn't Explorer some alcohol... could be why internet explorer is so bad ;-)


Not that I can think of ...
>
>Is the old win3.x-file manager winfile.exe really still around?
>I allways used nortoncommander instead back then....


Start | Run | winfile | wallow in nostalgia ... it even still only uses
8.3 filenames ... (No, I don't use it!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -Voltaire (1694-1778)
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

In message <OOqv6K1JJHA.2444@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>, FromTheRafters
<erratic@nomail.afraid.org> writes
>Have you tried a different keyboard to see if the problem
>is there too? Such a test might illuminate an investigative
>path.
>
>

The thing is, it always works the second time; also, I'm not aware of
the shift keys giving any problem in any other situation - THEY DO
CAPITALS NO PROBLEM, for example; it's _only_ when deleting files in
Windows Explorer, and _only_ the first time I try to delete one, that
the shift key is ignored.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -Voltaire (1694-1778)
 
F

FromTheRafters

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time


[snip]

>>Is the old win3.x-file manager winfile.exe really still around?
>>I allways used nortoncommander instead back then....

>
> Start | Run | winfile | wallow in nostalgia ... it even still only uses
> 8.3 filenames ... (No, I don't use it!)


IIRC progman.exe is there too, but has a new look.
 
F

FromTheRafters

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:T8uNdTNVjq6IFwKn@soft255.demon.co.uk...
> In message <OOqv6K1JJHA.2444@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>, FromTheRafters
> <erratic@nomail.afraid.org> writes
>>Have you tried a different keyboard to see if the problem
>>is there too? Such a test might illuminate an investigative
>>path.
>>
>>

> The thing is, it always works the second time; also, I'm not aware of the
> shift keys giving any problem in any other situation - THEY DO CAPITALS NO
> PROBLEM, for example; it's _only_ when deleting files in Windows Explorer,
> and _only_ the first time I try to delete one, that the shift key is
> ignored.


You're probably right, but...

It is a common failure in troubleshooting to assume "it couldn't be
this because...", when it would be so easy to prove it isn't this thing
instead of just guessing.

Electronics can surprise you.
 
T

thanatoid

Re: shift-delete not working the _first_ time

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:$8vGNbMRdq6IFwPO@soft255.demon.co.uk:

<SNIP>

>>Did you try another keyboard?

>
> I can't remember if I have or not, but as it's a laptop,
> that's not really a viable solution, unless I could get a
> replacement for such an old laptop.


Most laptops allow you to plug in an ext. kbd.

<SNIP>

> It's only when deleting files/folders in Windows Explorer.


WHY do you use that medieval torture device? www.ghisler.com.
Try it for free jst to see if it's your kbd or the venerabl;e
Window "file manager".

IIRC (I have set it up a /long/ time ago) Del is "no rec. bin"
and Sh-Del is "rec. bin". Or vice versa. It's in one of the
first options pages anyway, along with other things that will
blow your mind.

<SNIP>

> For some time (some years I think). Not enough of a problem
> to be really irritating.


Well, then, as a former boss of mine used to say (spoken with a
gurgling gorilla-like voice) "Ghais! Ghwat we talkin!?"


--
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the
votes decide everything.
- Josef Stalin
 
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